Godwin, John Jex

Submitted by edpope on

28.11.1795

for baptism and place of birth see Godwin, Joseph. Though baptised John Jex he often appeared in documents as just John or Jno. I would suggest that most of the Jno G as well as the J J G entries in Godwin's diary referred to him. They never appeared together though they did overlap, there were ten uses of JJ before Jno ceased, but they were spaced out in a way that is consistent with Godwin's nephew making calls every month or so on the uncle who had paid his apprenticeship premium. It can be explained by Godwin having gradually come to prefer JJ while being in the habit of using Jno.  On 26.11.1795 Jn G calls with Barker (John Jex's great-uncle or -aunt), on 20.12.1795 Jno Godwin calls with J G (John Jex's uncle), on 21.2.1796 Jno G calls, on 23.2.1796 Godwin calls on Tiffin (John Jex's future master), on 28.2.1796 Jno Godwin calls with J G, and on 1.3.1796 John Jex was bound apprentice. J J G didn't appear in the diary till October 1797, 18 months after the apprenticeship began. The information in the comment boxes below makes it seem unlikely that William Godwin was unaware of the John Godwin, pocket book maker of the Strand who took his life in 1804 to whom the Jno G entries are currently coded on the GD website but that doesn't mean they would have visited each other or that the pocket book maker must have appeared in Godwin's diary. The much earlier "Jno Godwin calls" on 19.5.1793 could be Godwin's brother John, or John Jex aged 13, or the pocket book maker. The J G Godwin in the 1796 list for 1795 that has been crossed out is a misreading in the transcription, close study of the original shows this was J(ohn) G(ale) Jones, and Galway crossed out. JJG calls 20.2.1805 has been missed by GD website and should be coded to John Jex Godwin

(Stationers Company Apprentices - see my para 3 for Joseph Godwin) no 8203 1.3.1796 Jno Godwin appr. to Thomas Tiffin, bookbinder of Warwick Lane, Newgate Street, father Joseph Godwin of Providence Place, Somers Town, upholder, £10 premium paid by his uncle William Godwin
21.8.1814 St Dunstan & All Saints Stepney John Godwin widower of this parish and of Mile End Old Town hamlet married by banns Ann Kidman spinster of the same parish and hamlet. Between 1815 and 1829 they baptised 7 children and buried 4 of them at 8 different addresses in 5 London parishes; in 3 baptisms the father's name was given as John Jex Godwin and in one of those the son was christened William Kidman Godwin. All the burial ages tally, and the father's trade was given as bookbinder in every case. If John Jex tried going to America (event tag 4.8.1817) this obviously didn't work out. In the 1841 census John Godwin bookbinder aged 60 was living with Ann Godwin aged 50 and three female Godwins aged 20, 15 and 10 at Pitt Street, St George Southwark, and in the 1851 census John Godwin, widower aged 70, bookbinder born Colney Suffolk was living with two unmarried daughters Elizabeth aged 25 a theatrical dancer and Sarah aged 22 a book folder.
 

Robert Godwin (not verified)

Tue, 30/10/2012 - 01:11

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I am not an expert on this subject but I thought you might like to know a few small pieces of information. John Godwin, pocketbook maker of the Strand married twice. His first wife and his daughter were both called Mary. On October 16 1796 Jno Godwin is documented in the Godwin Diaries visiting with `Mary G.` We found out about John's wife and daughter AFTER we suspected that Jno in the diary was John the pocketbook maker. So Jno was accompanied by a Mary G, we thought this was probably John's daughter Mary as his wife had died in 1782.

The diary also notes that Jno and JJ show up together. On Feb 28 1796 J, Jo and Jno show up together. There are many other coincidences:

  1. Both William and John Godwin (Strand) frequented the same pub, The Crown and Anchor off the Strand
  2. William definitely shopped at 302 Holborn when the Godwins owned a shop at 304 with a big sign over the door  that said "Godwin".
  3. William lived in Hanway Street when John's brother Thomas lived at 7 Tottenham Crt Rd, literally about four or five doors apart (Hanway Street is TINY and connects to TC Road right next to #7)
  4. John and his brother James' shop in Holborn was mentioned by and known to Shelley.
  5. When William first moved to London he took up residence in a house "overlooking the New Church in the Strand", which is exactly where John lived, one of a handful of houses that were literally overlooking that church, and John leased two of them.
  6. William refers to "Lysons" in his diary, which is probably Samuel Lysons, President of the Royal Society, who LIVED with John Godwin in the Strand
  7. John of the Strand was connected with Norfolk, which of course is where William's family hailed from.
  8. William lived in the Strand, Holborn and Hanway Street, John's family lived in the Strand, Holborn and Tottenham Crt Rd (next to Hanway St)
  9. H.L. Piozzi the famous writer dined with William Godwin Jan 7 1789. She was a close correspondent of Lysons when he was living with John Godwin in the Strand, she even mentioned Godwin's pocketbook shop in one of her letters. So if nothing else John and William both had the acquaintance of Piozzi.
  10. John of the Strand definitely used the abbreviation Jno as it appears on at least one of his watches. "Jno Godwin 161 The Strand"
  11. On more than one occasion Jno shows up at William's with Thomas Wedgwood. Wedgwood had association with the Royal Society which was headquartered about four doors down from John's shop in the Strand, where Lysons also lived when he was treasurer of the Society.
  12. Both families (William's and John's) ran book binderies and published books.

As you can see none of this is conclusive that Jno is John of the Strand, but it is a LOT of circumstantial evidence. We have not been able to find out where John of the Strand was born. He was born around 1746.

Best regards

Robert Godwin

 

edpope

Fri, 02/11/2012 - 15:26

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Thankyou very much for your comment. I take it you are an amateur researcher like me, so you're just as much an expert as I am. I saw the entries on Godwin the pocket book maker on London Lives (which I presume are yours) and thought of challenging them but it seemed impolite to try to destroy someone else's theory, but you found my website anyway. The information you give is very impressive though you don't cite many sources and it would take me a lot of time to assess it all, just at present I'm still of the opinion that the diary entries fit my theory too well to allow any room for the pocket book maker, but I'd have to reassess my work as well as checking yours to be at all sure of this. Certainly William Godwin's brothers John and Joseph and Joseph's son John Jex did appear in his diary, the question remains whether John the pocket book maker did also. and in that case which entries were him? You would need to read all my articles on members of the Godwin family to get a picture of how I have read the diary entries. I think I've also got notes somewhere about the pocket book maker's family, I may have got it jumbled in my memory but wasn't there a silversmith and some register entries in Hackney, Enfield or some north Middlesex parish? I'll try to dig out my notes which I forgot about when I thought I'd disposed of the pocket book maker. Two points - the form Jno doesn't have to have always been William Godwin's way of referring to one person, it was a normal abbreviation for John and he quite often used exactly the same form for two quite separate people, though the closer they were in time the more likely he was to try to distinguish them, he also often used different forms of a name for the same person - and the two families don't need to have been related for them to have known each other and both given some importance to their shared surname. May I ask if you're a descendant of John the pocket book maker? I would be happy to meet up with you and bring all our notes and be near a computer, perhaps in a month or so or longer as suits you, when I've had time to look into it a bit, I live in Oxford and go regularly to London and to Knighton on the Welsh borders but I also have to make occasional journeys to various county towns for research purposes.

Rob Godwin (not verified)

Sun, 04/11/2012 - 01:20

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Hi Ed,

So much to put in place. I have a mountain of research on the Godwins of Holborn(Strand). I am descended directly from James of Holborn/Strand. It is my contention (and the other members of my family who are genealogists) that John of the Strand was related to the Godwins of Holborn, probably brother to James (so a Gt Uncle to me, although he has direct descendants in Australia). We have hit a dead end trying to find where James and John  hailed from. We know what year they were born, but nothing turns up in any of the usual sources to tie them together through birth. (i.e. neither birth appears in any online sources, we only know the year of birth through their age at death.) There were many connections between them and the Royal Society (such as Lysons living with John, James buying platinum from William Wollaston, etc) Piozzi's comments about the pocketbook shop are in her letters to Lysons (collection at Harvard University). The Norfolk connection to John is in the London Times of Apr 28 1796 in the form of an advert for a nanny offering services in Yarmouth through John's shop at 161 Strand.

If you are familiar with Hanway Street it is a tiny alley that connects TC Road and Oxford St and is located right behind what used to be the Virgin megastore. It is literally only feet away from Thomas Godwin's house at 7 TC Road. Thomas was the umbrella maker in my family and shared an insurance policy with James of Holborn.

William lived at 191 Strand which was basically connected to the Crown and Anchor on Arundel Street. He wrote about signing contracts in that pub. John of the Strand met on the first Monday of the month at the same pub as part of a group called "Benevolent Insitution for the Sole Purpose of Delivering Poor Married Women  At Their Own Habitations."

Shelley wrote about how people were seeking for William when he was in debt and frequently mistook the Godwins of Holborn's shop for William's. He actually says my family were "no relation".  One of William's accounts in "The Carl H. Pforzheimer Library Shelly and His Circle" talks about him owing money to a business at 301 Holborn in 1810. 304 was the location of the Godwins shop from 1801-1906, they also had 290 Holborn from 1791-1823 (I have a multitude of things to confirm these dates). If you look at the illustration on my link at the end of this you'll see just how close they were. It seems inconceivable that William not notice the Godwins at 304, especially when Shelly says people were always mistaking that shop for William's shop which was just down the street.

Charles Kegan Paul quotes William talking about taking lodgings near the New Church in the Strand around 1783 for a year. John's lease on one property at 165 Strand is documented in the Times and at a Christies auction. His business card is in the British Museum's collection at 171 Strand and his business is in dozens of directories from 1775-1804 at 161, 165, 167 and 171 Strand. James (my 5X Gt Grandfather) was at 177 Strand from 1789-1791.

Anyway, at the end of the day there are a multitude of synchronicities, not least they all lived on the same three streets, they both definitely knew Piozzi, they were both in the same business, they both knew people at the Royal Society, they were both connected to Norfolk and they both frequented the same pub. As  I said, none of this proves anything, I just thought it was interesting and I was hoping it might lead me to find out more about John and James. Unfortunately I am in Canada so although I'd love to meet up with you, Oxford is a bit far! I'm hoping to one day be able to actually do some research in London, instead of all online. Here is a link to some of my research. http://www.apogeebooks.com/Godwin/page_01.htm

 

Regards

Robert

thanks very much Robert for the very full information. I hope I come up with something over the next year or so that might help your research. I can't resist looking into such things but it will probably be some time before I get my head round it

Regards

Edward

edpope

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 12:57

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hi Robert

you probably have this information already but just in case, have you got John Godwin d1804 burial at All Saints Edmonton and the burials of John & Mary Godwin there in 1783, of Josiah Godwin in 1795 and of Edward James Godwin in 1798 age 5 months (this last stated to be son of John of the Strand)? And do you know why they were buried at Edmonton? Did they just have a country box there, or may their family have come from there?

Edward

Rob Godwin (not verified)

Thu, 15/11/2012 - 02:01

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Hi Ed,

Wow, thank you very much for this news. No, I did not have some of this. I knew John was buried there in 1804 and I have Mary, wife of John, dying in September 1782 and being buried at All Saints. I have Edward James (son of John's second wife Elizabeth) but the other John and Mary you have mentioned is a mystery. As is Josiah. Is there any chance you have any more information on these others? e.g. where did this info come from?

It is my estimation that they were all buried out of town because of a scandal which took place in the area of the Strand where bodies were being paid for to be buried and then dumped in St Clements Lane (I think). I read somewhere that  the government eventually clued in and banned the burial of any further bodies at the churches in the Strand. When James died in 1831 (that's James of Holborn and the Strand, who I think was John's brother) the obit said "James late of Enfield" which is very close to Edmonton. Of course this again means nothing without any proof. I would be VERY interested in knowing where the info about John and Mary in 1782 and Josiah came from. Thank you very much.

 

Regards

Rob

edpope

Mon, 19/11/2012 - 16:41

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I got all these burials at Edmonton from Ancestry Library edition which has scanned images of many London registers. I got the date wrong for Mary, that was 30.9.1782 so was probably John's first wife, according to your information. The only two you have missed are John Godwin buried 1.10.1783 and Josiah Godwin buried 24.9.1795. There's no more detail than that in the register. They may have been children of John who died young but also perhaps his father or other older relatives. I might get time to visit Edmonton and look at the gravestones, if you would kindly send me the information you have about John (pocket book) Godwin's marriages (dates wife's maiden name and which parish) and the baptisms of his children (dates and which parish) that might help me. Or you could try writing to the "incumbent" (as they call the current vicar) at All Saints Edmonton in case he has a map or list of the graves

Rob Godwin (not verified)

Mon, 19/11/2012 - 23:37

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Hi Ed,

Thanks for the update. I suspect now that the John who died in 1783 might have been pocketbook John's last son. What I have is the following: John Married Mary Ann Recordon on Feb 14 1770 in St Mary Marylebone. They had six children, Charles Samuel (1774 -) Louisa (1775-) Mary Ann (1777-) Charles William (1778-), Harriet (1779-) and John (1781-)

Mary died in Sep 1782, John then married Elizabeth Gayleard in 1794 at St George Hanover Sq. They had three children, Sophia Eliza (1795- ) Edward James (1798-1798 ) and Ann (1799-) John died in January 1804.  All children are from Saint Clement Danes except Edward James who appears to have been born at All Saints in Edmonton.   That's all I have. Many thanks again.

Rob

 

hello Rob

a couple more items Charles Godwin buried Edmonton All saints 7.2.1779 - that could be either Charles Samuel or Charles William - and Elizabeth Sophia Godwin buried St James Pentonville 14.3.1818 age 24 yrs of Penton Place, looks very like Sophia Eliza

Ed

Rob Godwin (not verified)

Fri, 23/11/2012 - 01:07

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Hi Ed,

Thank you yet again for these updates. I suspect that Charles must be either Charles William or an older relative. Apparently Charles Samuel was apprenticed to the Goldsmiths, so he must have lived to his teens. The Pentonville connection is an entirely new twist for us. It is indeed very close, although the age is not quite right. She was born 11 Aug 1795 so she would have been 22 in March 1818.

Cheers

Rob

Arthur Gayleard (not verified)

Tue, 19/02/2013 - 23:48

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Elizabet Gayleard married to John Godwin was sister of James Gayleard my 4 times G Grandfather.

James Gayleard was i understand a merchant tailor of New Bond Street London.

His son James The Hon. James Gayleard of Jamaica, President of Leg. Council. My 3times G Grandfather.

His other son John was a physician and Surgeon of London. John had a number of children.

Hello Arthur. I am researching the Shoubridge family history. There was a James Gayleard who married Ann Shoubridge in 1794. The marriage was witnessed by Louisa Godwin sister of John Godwin.I am trying to find out if this is James Gayleard Snr married to Mary Gayleard. I wander if he remarried. There also is James Gayleard born to James Snr and Mary in 1777 and another James born 1780 to James and Mary. Not sure if this is the same couple. Could be that their first child James died at an early age? I can send you the info I have found if you are interested. Thank you. Chris Shoubridge